Closing the Pleasure Gap with DAME

 [00:16:00] 

Hello, friends, future friends, haters, and ex lovers. Welcome back to another episode of Crimes of the Heart. I'm your host, Rory Uphold. And today is a really fun episode with an epic giveaway.

But, before we get into it, I wanted to share something that I've been thinking about ever since I edited this episode, because it's a lot. Whoever you are, you're doing a great job. No matter how much you're struggling right now in your love or your sex life, you're killing it, truly.

Because when I think about the way that most of us have been marketed towards since we were literal children... With sexualized images we've seen in magazines and on social media and in movies, whether it's like the IG baddies with their tits out, or sexual innuendos happening during award shows, or magazines literally telling us how to give the perfect BJ.

it's a lot. Like, it's a lot. And yet, female pleasure has basically been banned. We never see it. Not pleasure. While sex is encouraged, pleasure is [00:17:00] still so taboo. That's confusing. Then, let's add the crazy expansion and confusion of gender roles. Do you reach for your purse? I mean, who pays on the first date?

Are men still expected to be providers? I mean, is that even possible in our new economy? And now suddenly after years and years of praise, men have had the rug pulled out from underneath them. They're being told that it's time to raise the bar because women are tired of bearing the brunt of child labor, domestic labor, and quite frankly, emotional labor. It is beyond confusing for all of us.

So I just wanted to say, I'm really proud of us for just surviving, for continuing to try and for every one of you who still believes in love and is bravely putting yourself out there, kudos. 

that is my main thought for today going into this episode.

Because I think about how insane it is to grow up in a world where hamburgers, hamburgers, are being advertised by a half naked lady in a bikini, but [00:18:00] actual sex education is seen as dangerous. Like, I really have to pat us all on the back, we are doing it, and I'm proud of us. Okay, rant over. 

So let's get into today's epic guest. Alexandra Fine is the CEO and co founder of DAME, a sexual wellness company dedicated to changing the way pleasure is understood. Their vibrators were developed by MIT engineer Janet Lieberman, and because they are such a dope company, they're giving away four of their best selling vibrators to our listeners.

Mm hmm, that's right.

To enter into this giveaway, go to the website, which is linked in the show notes, and sign up for the mailing list, and you will automatically be entered to win one of these four toys. They sent me their line up so I have tested them all and I had a blast, pun intended, and I am excited that they are down to share that blast with some of you.

Needless to say, I am [00:19:00] a huge fan. So please welcome Al Fine to Crimes of the Heart.

Thanks for saying all those nice things about me. Well, you know, it's all true. You did all the hard work.

Oh, thank you. I would just love to kick this conversation off with your company aims to, in quotes, close the pleasure gap. Yes. What is the pleasure gap? Women are four times more likely to say that sex has been not at all pleasurable. Four times. Wow. Four times. Yeah. They, they also have, I mean, look, there's so many stats I can throw at you that ultimately say people with vulvas and particularly cis head women have less sexual pleasure and enjoyment.

I mean, I think if even we just think about. The way women tend to be. I do think we are taught or maybe have also like a beautiful ability to think about the collective and that does [00:20:00] often lead to putting other people's needs first.

And I think that that has ultimately done a real disservice. I think when we talk about even also like the concept of bad sex. When men are talking about bad sex, they're talking about. The rhythm not being great. Mm-hmm. And not feeling as good. Maybe didn't last as long as they wanted to. When women are talking about bad sex, they're talking about pain more frequently.

They're talking about harassment, assault it, like, you know, or just, yeah. Really not being enjoyable. Like, they're, like, that's a big difference. So ultimately, I, I wanted to change that. I don't think that there's a reason for that. Yeah. Or there is a reason. It's a lack of education is like the main one.

Yeah. Yeah. And also just creating more products that encourage people to explore their bodies. I think it, I it's very, very cool. So one day did you just wake up and decide I'm going to get into the sex business? [00:21:00] Uh, I feel like I woke up so many days and was like, Sex. But no, it didn't happen.

It wasn't like just a moment. I mean, from when I was really, really young, I've been very interested in this category, in this like, Why can't we talk about this aspect of reality? Mm. There are so many. The story I often tells when I was six, I met some drag queens. It was awesome. Was not in Florida. Was not in Florida.

I was here in New York City and they taught me one, how to like strut my stuff and how to do a catwalk and like be probably like nobody taught me how to be a woman more than a drag queen. That's incredible. And also was able to explain like all of these things to me around like what it means to be a drag queen, what it means to be transgender.

And I went back to my show and tell on my first grade class and explained these things and got in trouble. Whoa. Yeah. So they like. The teacher was like, oh, I don't [00:22:00] know. And they called the principal and everybody was kind of like, so I called my parents. My parents were upset with my aunt for bringing me to the party.

And there was a lot of just like hubbub, but nobody being able to explain what I did wrong. I didn't lie. Nobody's feelings were hurt. You also weren't sexualized yourself. Like you felt good about the situation. I don't think. No. And and I, you know, I think it was more that they were like uncomfortable with the conversation in the classroom.

Yeah. And didn't know how to handle it. And I think that really was the beginning for me of just being interested in like, there's these governing laws of society that we're just not supposed to talk about, but they're so important and why aren't we talking about them? And then I think also just growing up, being.

I don't know. I like to say like aeros curious, just like, I really wanna enjoy life and sexuality. I love you said that I just call myself slutty. Yes. I call myself slutty too. [00:23:00] Uh, it's my mom by the way. My mom was like, you've got to stop calling yourself a slut on the podcast. And I was like, hi, mom. No. I'm like, no.

I, I, to me it's not a bad thing. Like I don't think of that as a negative thing. It's not. If somebody was like, you're slut, I would be like, cool. I was like thinking about how, like the main ways I identify and I feel like slutty is. Probably stronger than a lot of other things. Yeah. But I'm not really slutty anymore.

It's kind of alive, but I don't know. You're pretty pregnant. I looks pretty slutty. Pretty. Yeah. But inside I, you know, I really feel slutty. Yeah. In my head I'm a real slut. I love that. Yeah. No, but I do feel like even, but like, that for me came from just being super curious and excited and like, I'm, I'm plucky af like, and of course that also, like when I was going through puberty was like, I wanna explore these things.

And I remember kissing a, like my first kiss, the boy getting high fives and me getting dirty looks. And it was kind of just like, wait, what's this? Yeah. That's crazy actually, now that I think about that, I feel like a skill that I had when I was younger. Well, I wasn't [00:24:00] really, I didn't really give a shit.

Yeah. Which was not that I wasn't into guys, I just was so focused on other things, but I really was able to navigate the line between being not like, I wasn't a prude, but I wasn't a slut. Like I knew how to bob and weave on that. I don't know. Like, oh, I learned that the hard way. I was just, you know, born slutty and didn't have that filter.

I like kissed three of my guy friends in one night cuz they wanted to know what kissing was like. And I was like, yeah, yeah, let's, let's do this. Yeah. Like, it sounded awesome, like, why wouldn't, like you are my friends, I'm also interested in exploring this for sure. And like, I like had to leave school crying the next day.

So that was like my hard lesson. But like, if I can go back in time, I would just be like, no, little al you crushing it. Like yeah. That's awesome. That is totally a valid curiosity and that's a valid way of exploring it. Mm-hmm. And you were comfortable and that's, that's okay. Yeah. And people are often threatened by other people's comfort.

Yeah. I have like a journal entry, [00:25:00] and there's a page in it that's like pretty sad about how like me promising not to be a slut anymore and like as that's essentially like me saying like, I'm gonna stop being five too.

Like Yeah, you can't deny Like I was really, I'm really, I was just so curious. Wait, can you post onto Instagram like me saying that's an incredible pose or just like, I don't know, send it to me. Oh yeah. I feel like that's something that needs to be framed. No, I don't know. That's a funny frame, but, okay.

I'll, I mean, I'd frame it just cuz I'm, but I'm the type of person where I was like, I like to frame like rejection letters and stuff like that. I think that you like, I think that there's, but there's an element of that. Is clearly a very pivotal moment in your life. And I won't frame anything that has words on it.

I honestly, I don't even, I don't even have, like, we have like one framed photo. We just walk into your place and you just look like a serial killer. It's just like all white. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It takes me and just random sex, voice. But now I'm starting to have like more, I guess art. I have some art. Okay. But amazing.

Mostly that, mostly my boss. I'm not mad at [00:26:00] that. Wow. Okay. All mirrors, everything's a mirror. No, that is, I do have some mirrors. Okay. Well that, that does track. Track. That's something. Yeah. Man, so then oof. God, I, I have a visceral reaction to that. I do wanna hug the little version of you.

Yeah. And just say like, I'm so sorry that you grew up in that time. Yeah. Because it's, what's weird is like, We also were being catered to by all of these magazines and, and, and TV shows saying like, you know, how to please a man or how to give a good blow job, or how to do these things. I think on the one hand, we were being taught we were sexually liberated.

Yeah. But we are still figuring out what that really means. Right. In a female form. Yeah. Or for anybody. I mean, I think we're all still figuring out what that means. Yeah. But especially especially women. yeah. Cause I remember being really inspired by Samantha from Sex in the City. Mm-hmm. Me too.

And feeling like she was fucking cool. Okay. Well, where we have a very similar Yeah. So like, she was around like, you know, she was there. That's amazing. But the reality of her was both [00:27:00] like, do it like a man. Mm-hmm. And not necessarily. Like she was still not really allowed in society. She was like this risky character that we got.

That's true. So yeah, that is is true. We never really got to see her down days. We got to. Yes. And also I think she was like taboo. Yeah. So even though I was inspired by her trying to be like her in some way was still like a hundred. Yeah. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Right. And I don't think I was as aware of the risks of what it really felt like to be like her maybe.

Yeah. She got a lot of confidence. Yeah, totally. Yeah. we don't have to go too deep into it, but I love that these toys are. M MIT designed, so, okay. So then that's, that's wild. Yeah. Yes. So I like just to go from 13 year for me, let's 13 to now. Yeah. So then 13 now and then, you know, I continued to have interest and [00:28:00] experiences in this category.

I went and got my masters in psychology eventually, and wanted to be a sex therapist. I went to Columbia and then ultimately realized I was like, probably too impatient to be a therapist and hilarious. H yes, I know that's not true. I like really, I think being a therapist is a really, is really beautiful.

But ultimately I wanted to take this interest and this on like little indignation I had around. Being able to own my pleasure. And honestly, I feel like it's so much more than just like, I think the, I think the pleasure gap exists within all of us. It's not just like a gender or sex gap. Oh. I think we, it's absolutely with men.

We, I had a conversation earlier but there's a lot of guys right now struggling. There's so, yeah. And that sucks too. Yes. And we're in a new landscape where I do feel like men are feeling emasculated, they're feeling isolated. Uh, the porn addiction thing is so real and so [00:29:00] devastating.

Yeah. Not only mentally, but physically. Yeah. There's, yeah, I agree that it women, it's hurting everybody. Like we have D problems. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's also true too, whenever you have like, just uh, a disproportionate like. Societal norms or something like it, it hurts. It hurts us all. Of course, we have like, yeah.

Yeah. So it's really, I think there's like a pleasure gap in just us honoring pleasure and treating it like it's an important aspect of our wellbeing. Yeah. Just like going to the gym, just like going to the gym just, or eating being Well, well, or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. All of those things, they can both be, like, they can both be really helpful for your mental health and your physical health.

And they're also sometimes indicators of how, how we're doing physically or mentally. So anyway. Oh, I know, I'm, I know. No, I feel like when I'll go, th I can track kind of waves Yes. Where it's like, oh, I'm really having a hard time orgasming. And then I sort of know. Something's up. Something's up, and like, you know, like [00:30:00] look, also like that shifts in our body.

Like it does. Well, I also cannot come right before my period. Right. There's that, and I did not realize that that was freaking normal. That can, right. There's just like, nobody told me that it shifts also if you ever decided to get pregnant or not. You know, like all of that. There's all of these Yeah. Hor, you know, there are things that happen in our bodies and it is a sign of what's going on inside.

Mm-hmm. So like, I do think it's like just, it's just really valuable and we just ignore it. It's data. It's data. It's good data. Mm-hmm. Anyway, so wanted to be a therapist, ended up deciding not to be and starting this company. And when I was starting this company, I was making like vibrators by hand in my kitchen.

Wait, what? And like learning how to pretty print. Sorry. How do you make a vibrator by hand? You take, there's a few different ways you can do it. I mean, I did everything how? Getting the new hobby and getting, what I did at the very, very beginning is I took apart other vibrators and wrapped them in new shapes with new, with different plastics.

And then I learned a little bit about how to like solder [00:31:00] and things like that. But then I met my co-founder who went Tom mit. Mm-hmm. And she like really knew how to solder. Do you know what soldering is? Yes. Okay. If you don't you can look it up guys. You can look it up. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, there's so many reasons to solder, so you get to wear a cool hat.

Yeah. Some goggles. Yeah. Um, Yes, she really helped take, make my very first concept, Eva and turn it into a reality. And we launched an Indigogo, which is a crowdfunding site. We raised $575,000 in 45 days. And wow. Boom. We were like the, I think, you know, pioneers in the sexual wellness space. We were direct to consumer Brown, started by a, you know, a sex expert and a product expert.

And that has, you know, served us really well. Are you guys the first sex toy to ever be crowdfunded on? No. That's crazy. There was one called the Auto Blow that crowdfunded before us, and they raised about $260,000. And I know we were like, oh, let's, I think we can maybe beat them, but their product was more [00:32:00] expensive, so we'd have to like sell twice as many and we raised $575,000.

Wow. So we. We beat them. That's amazing. Yes. And that product, Eva is a handsfree vibrator. I know. I, I was, I was sent it. You were sent it. Yes. But I wanted the, the audience to know about it. Oh, yes. Yes. It's a handsfree Hello audience. It's a hands free vibrator that you can wear a while you're having sex.

So it provides plet control stimulation, which is what most people with vulvas need in order to have an orgasm. And allows you to have that in a way where you can still be penetrated vaginally. Yeah, it's great. I, I think it's really great for everybody to try. For me, I was little too wet. Yeah. So it was like, it was like a slip and slide action.

It's very, that's a tmmi thing, but whatever y'all can deal. I think it's really, really great too for just like arousal in the beginning. Yeah. And sometimes I end up removing it, it's just Sure, sure. Extra spice and kick. No, but I love the idea because I think [00:33:00] there are a lot of. Women who have never even tried that while having partnered sex.

Yes. And I think that it makes a huge difference. Huge difference. At difference. At least it did for me. Difference. I mean, if you think about a lot of the stats around, you know, or, or also the ways we speak about the female orgasm, as if it's elusive and hard to get, but really most people would like, I think it's 96% of people with vulvas orgasm when they masturbate.

Mm-hmm. And it, it's like not a problem when they're masturbating, they don't, they don't have an issue having an orgasm Yeah. By themselves. It comes down to it's the partner play that isn't working for them, not that there's something wrong with them. Mm. And you know, so I think that's always a good reminder.

And a lot of people use vibrators and be bringing them into the bedroom and accepting them. Designing also for couples has, has been core to what we do. I think it's great. Thank [00:34:00] you. Yeah. But yeah, I, I do think like there was a few things that we did, which are just like being women who started the brand was Sure.

Oddly revolutionary. Which is wild. Is wild. Cause like, wait a second, 2014. But like, that just feels, I don't know, it's weird I guess on some level I feel so it, it's, it's so cool that I got the opportunity to, to be that. Yeah. It is cool. It's also like just so wild that it was like 2014 and that, that was like, that is also pretty nuts.

Pretty nuts. So, yeah. But then again, Women were literally not allowed to get business loans without their husbands until 1988. Yeah. And then Seven years ago they started including us in pain medication studies, or like, that became mandatory, right?

Yeah. Which is, there's just like so many stats like that, it is just like mind boggling and then it's like, on the one hand it's like, yay, we did that. But like, that seems pretty late. We should have done that all like pretty late. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And even when you think about it, [00:35:00] like it is wild that it was only pretty recently a hundred years of voting, like, that's not bad.

I know that that blows my mind. It really does blow my mind when, when I. Start to think about it. It, it gives me the experience of being stoned where it's like I start to like, leave my body and I'm like, wait, what's happening? Okay. Imagine that someone is listening and they don't own a vibrator. Mm-hmm. Or they've never. Played around with the vibrator at all. What do you have to say to those people who feel maybe like nervous or insecure about jumping into this new arena?

Mm. And where would they start? I wanna, I mean, I, whenever I get these kinds of questions, I'm like, uh, I become so therapist like, I wanna know why are they afraid of jumping in? Like, what is that fear? But I can tell you for me, so, oh yes, I have kind of always been slutty and freaky, but weirdly, I think, man, when was this?

I didn't really get vibrators till. Maybe like 10 years [00:36:00] ago, but I think of friends that had them when they were in high school, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, or they got them really, really young. So, and I think there was other, there's some people too who identify with you and waited probably until they were even older to try them or still haven't tried them.

Exactly. My journey was a little bit like, I enjoyed sex sometimes, but not always. But I didn't really realize, I didn't know my body very well. I also didn't love oral sex because it had never been great for me. Which I think was a combo of just these guys didn't know what they were doing.

I also did not understand my body. Mm-hmm. So now I have a better way to communicate. I have the tools, so if I'm hooking up with somebody, I can tell them what to do. Mm-hmm. And then it's a great experience for both of us, I guess. I just didn't really think of. The toys as being something that I needed or wanted.

Partially because I feel like I masturbated with my hand when I was younger, and then I am one of the few women that can get off [00:37:00] via intercourse. And then did you continue to masturbate too, as you were older with your fingers and that was very effective? Yeah. Yeah. It still works, but I mean, toy way better, way better.

Toys I like, like game changer, right? Yeah. Freaking game changer. But, but I will say I was, I guess late, there was no real. Hang up per se. But then once I got one I was like, well, shit. And then I got like, you know, all of them, right? And so now it's like I just have so many, and also with this podcast, I truly have so many, so Me too.

I have so many. Well, of course, yes. I think one, there's no shame in not having a vibrator. Like, you know, I definitely feel like that's valid. And if we, you know, I think for me there's this element of like, oh, but I can walk there. It's like, yes, but have you tried driving a car?

Mm-hmm. You know, or a bicycle or Yeah. You know. Or an Uber. Or an Uber. And then the subway. Yes. And then this other way. And then like, there's like, oh, it's nice to be able to have options. [00:38:00] Options and to explore different sensations. Yes. And then different sensations. I think that really resonates with me.

Yes. Because I talk, I've talked openly about this a lot. Like every time is sort of different for me and depending on the situation, whether I'm by myself, whether I'm partnered, I like different things. Yeah. And I think it does come down to different sensations. Yeah. And when you're only doing one way, you really don't know, oh, there might be 10 other different combinations that I love.

Yeah. Or one that I really am into that I've never even experienced. I also say for you as somebody that has like a lot of internal stimulation, you can't reach as far as a toy can reach inside of you. Well that is a hu So no, that is a hundred percent right. Like I absolutely cannot, and that's why I. Yes.

A lot of the people that I talk to, like the G-spot stuff, like I can't hit that myself. Right. First off, I short arms. There's also, there's also so much there. There's so much more in [00:39:00] there. And, but I would say you're not, the common narrative that I hear, I hear a lot of people who just like aren't comfortable masturbating at all.

And that is like a very different, like, you know, toys can be really helpful there as well. Yeah. Mm-hmm. In helping like just develop the neuro pathways and like connecting with our sensations. So for them, I think there's just more of a conversation around pleasure and like Yeah. Sexual journey versus free.

Yeah. I know people that don't masturbate. Yeah. Yeah. And again, it's just kind of like, well, Do you wanna masturbate? Yeah. Because what's interesting is a lot of people, they, they wanna be having more sexual pleasure, right? They, but they don't wanna masturbate. I know there seems to be a very interesting cloak of shame around that specific activity.

Yeah. It's just, it is like this odd thing where like, we wanna be having amazing [00:40:00] sex with our partners, but we don't think it's okay to be practicing it in any way. Which is weird cuz I do feel that way about being a Maxim model, but I do not wanna do anything that's going to get me there. So in some ways I do relate.

Uh, yeah, no, I get it. I do. I just wanna be good at everything without practicing too. Yeah. But unfortunately that has not been my journey in life. That has not been my journey either. And I think just, I think sex in particular though, instead of being like, oh, let's, let me prioritize this thing in my life, we're just like, it's not good.

And now I'm upset about it and it should be better. Like my partner should know what I want. And isn't it all supposed to just come really natural to us if we like love each other? No, and no. The answer is no. No. The answer is definitely not. That's not the case. The crazy thing is, is I spent my youth sort of throwing darts at a dart board with my eyes closed.

Yeah. Hoping that [00:41:00] I was gonna hit a bullseye because I didn't really know what I was into. And neither did the guy, I mean, and yes, sometimes it would connect and it would work, but then a lot of times it wouldn't. And I'd be chasing. The proverbial dragon of like, you know, that one, you know, stigmatization experience or, or that certain person, or, you know what I mean?

Yeah. I feel like I dated a lot of dudes, not for their personality. Like I was in some situations that I probably could have exited a lot earlier had I learned how to communicate my needs or, or known. Yeah. Because now I do think that I can have better sex with not just anyone, but because of where I'm at, I'm having better quality sex more consistently.

That's nice. which I think is possible for everyone. No, I think it's possible for everyone. Yeah. Yes. But I also, I think there's just so many, I, I'm in a. Long, long term relationship and we're, we're like [00:42:00] non monogamous in theory, but we also have a two year old and I have a second one on the way. Yeah.

And I run a business. So mostly like I flirt on the apps and then masturbate to my idea of meeting up with them. And then just That's really good though. You're like the I have time for the fantasy. Yes. You're like the Yes. Which does serve like a really strong purpose in our relationship. It is really nice.

Like even just for, for us. Mm-hmm. Like even just acknowledging that there are other people out there that find us attractive. Yeah. Helps us bring our attractiveness back to our relationship. Like it is. So, like even when I had a conversation with Ian, Ian Kerner, oh, by the way, that's Ian Kerner is, is a huge fan of yours.

I'm about to have my, and he did, he did say to say hi. And also it came up that. Dame is what he recommends first to all of his clients. So just as an aside, like I thought that was very nice. I think, yeah. I mean, it also just lines up with his ethos in so many ways. I just feel like I, I adore him. He's like my hero.

I think he's just a genius. But he was talking, we had a conversation about like the power of fantasy because [00:43:00] one of my fears is what happens when I get into a long-term relationship. I'm so explorative in all of this. Like, will I, I'm afraid I'll get bored. And he was talking about the, the power of fantasy.

The power of fantasy. I do think what's interesting about monogamy though, is this like two people thinking, they both understand what it means to be monogamous and not nec.

Like there are people out there who, I feel like that was very judgmental the way it was started. It. But there, some people think that watching porn is cheating. Like some people think, oh, I know that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not one of those people. I'm not. I like, that blew my mind. I was like, what? That's clearly not cheating.

That's definitely not, not this. What I, this is what I love about that. I'm sorry. So you think that this woman is gonna bone your, your idiot boyfriend? No, but it's not that. Do you remember bringing it back to Sex in the City where Charlotte finds out that, like her, I think husband or partner, do you know what I'm talking about?

Yes. Do know what [00:44:00] You're magazine? Yes, yes, yes. Which like, I loved iconic. Iconic I can't believe we talked about Sex and City twice in one podcast. Well, we're in New York and we are talking about sex, so it's wild. Yeah. But yes. But I do think that there's this feeling of you're putting your erotic energy to somebody else or to something else besides me.

Like the way it could be like emotional cheating. It's not, you know, just different people have different understandings of what it means to be in this like one-on-one relationship. Different people feel differently about the idea of like, do you ever think about somebody else when you're having sex with someone and like, think No.

But that has a lot more to do with the fact that I feel like for me, I kind of tune a lot of things out. So it's, if I'm thinking about some, well I probably have, I probably have, but no, not on a regular basis. the point being that there's all different kinds of cheating, right? There's all different kinds of cheating. There's all different kinds of ways of understanding monogamy. Yeah. And like putting boundaries on a [00:45:00] relationship. And I don't even remember where we started this conversation. What are we talking about?

I don't know. Well, let's get back to if somebody's looking on the Dame website, where should I start with a vibrator? I think first of all, you should start with checking in with your body, yourself and your wallet. Smart. Yeah. Yeah. Like where, you know, I mean, I think you should buy from Dame because we make quality products.

We have a great warranty policy, we have a great exchange policy for buy products, or there's also partners and people that are Yeah. Women identifying also non women identifying. Yeah. It's really for everyone. But yeah, we're definitely people with vulvas. Yeah. And we predominantly, and we're making stuff like having a vulva centric lens. Copy that. Yes. So I'm such a, I'm such a millennial or whatever, so welcome. So I don't know what it is, The thing is, is that sex is political. Sex is part of the reason why I talk about sex on this show. And it's not just relationships and dating is because sex has been weaponized against women. Yes. Or a fbs and also members of the L G B T Q [00:46:00] I A community. And it's unfair. And if we think too about the idea of like education I think that to me is so, one's so interesting because like if 90% of us are gonna end up in heterosexual relationships, we should really teach a lot more about it. Yeah. And the idea that we're not, I wish I had had some skills.

I wish I had a lot more, I mean, I think that it's one of the most important aspects of our lives and we don't educate around how to be in healthy relationships. I know. It's, it feels, and, and again, I do feel like that burden ultimately comes down on fem identifying people. Yeah. So you know, you're the one that's supposed to handhold, handhold and do all of this stuff.

And we've been given no education, I know I would've loved it. I would've loved, uh, how to talk to people when you feel scared, how to talk to people when your defenses are up, how to yes. How to talk to people, to calm down, down how to, like, how to that you so, so feel a certain way.

Like I'm still like, oh my God, I am hiding now. Right now. My now feelings are [00:47:00] hurt. I tell this story all the time and my husband was like, you gotta stop telling this story. But one time earlier in my relationship, I was like, Perry, that's my husband's name. Mm-hmm. I was like, how do you feel like you're explaining that, that you feel like, I like that I did all these things.

Mm-hmm. Like, you dah dah, you. I'm like, how do you feel right now? And he like, really sat with it. And he was like, I feel, I feel, I feel like you're being a bitch. And I was just like, that's not a feeling, babe. Yeah. That's like, I love you. That was not it. That's not a feeling like. Pull back that layer, what's behind that, pull that in it.

But it was just like, it was very funny cuz he was really trying. Yeah, I, I, I thought it was really funny. And I do, but I do think it really speaks to like how that is actually, you know, something. I actually think we're probably born with it. Mm-hmm. A really good sense of how we feel and being able to express it, but especially men there.

And we are taught, if anything, not to talk about it. And my main point here is that we are teaching heterosexuality all the [00:48:00] time and people are like, oh my God, we can't. Teach sex. We are teaching like kids are learning mm-hmm. All of the time. Yeah. That, you know, even just the concept of mommy and daddy is the beginning of sex education.

Right? Yeah. So like, we need to be talking about it, not, not saying gay in school or talking about not talking about periods and shit like that anyway. Oh, oh yeah. Wait. The sex toy. The sex toy staff. And also because it does like, tie in nicely, like just my experiences with meta, my experiences running this company.

Yeah. And how often like this company has been, uh, politicized. Like, I definitely felt like I was just like, I'm gonna be a good American capitalist and make some vibrators. Yeah. If I will it, they will come. Well, you also saw a. Gap in the market, pun intended. Totally. And, and I penetrated it so hard. And the money came, and the money came and people showed up and they came.

God, I hope everybody appreciated that. But then like, you know, banks didn't wanna work with me. [00:49:00] Wait, what? Platforms didn't wanna work me. Yeah. I couldn't get an SBA loan, which is a government funded loan because it said that they don't support any companies of of PRT sexual nature. And I said, whoa.

And I said, we're not prurient. We're just, you know, we're of healthy sexual nature. And I got laughed at. They were like, and I still to this day just feel like, no, that language was written in a specific way. They didn't have to say the word prurient. Like it's a, it, it was a very valid argument. Like, and I was just literally, people just thought I was joking and maybe I was cuz like I'm very funny.

So I could see how maybe they were confused that way. Girl, you're not that funny. That, I mean, you're like pretty funny. I dunno. But I, that's crazy in a bank trying to get a loan and they're like, no, no, because. Yeah. Wow. There's so much of that. Okay. So, and then because you're a deviant. Because I'm deviant.

Exactly. Cause what I'm doing is literally like selling guns, which is so unfortunate because like I really do believe that I'm helping the world. I, I [00:50:00] believe that to my core. I, I think it's just factually true based on scientific evidence. Both on the one hand that like vibrators do have a positive impact in people's overall wellbeing to the fact that sex education does lead to decrease, teen pregnancies and other things that I think, of course, we could all agree or good.

Yeah. And they, I mean, have health benefits all of this stuff. Yet I'm treated like I sell guns on Facebook and, you know, I have, there's policies against my adver. I can't advertise the way a lot of other brands can advertise know, but I'm, I'm really fascinated by the way that. Female pleasure has been like criminalized online.

I would say like, to some extent all pleasure has been criminalized online. And then double, triple click on, you know, vulva non cis het male pleasure. So I see ads for like Viagra type things. Mm-hmm. Online. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, okay. [00:51:00] But I've never seen. An ad for a vibrator. So the, okay. The policy, I mean, I'm not gonna be able to say it verbatim.

Sure. But Meta's policy is essentially like, they will not, you cannot advertise any devices or products for sexual pleasure. And then they also have a list of exemptions. And in the exemptions are erectile dysfunction and premature ejaculation products. Wait, Boche West are obviously for pleasure. So they don't explain at all why those products are viewed as, as like, I guess like they would say like, health over pleasure cuz they make this distinction.

That helps. That's crazy. It is crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. Like one could go into details on how much like that has really just impacted my ability to run this business. But it's so unfair that at women cannot be marketed mm-hmm.

For something that is going to improve their sex life. Men can, but men can, can, yeah. It's [00:52:00] really, it's really sad. Especially cuz like, it's crazy because that's such a black and white example. No Facebook, no Instagram, but in, yes, and, and no TikTok. No. Well, of course, no TikTok. I mean, you can't even, didn't even mention sex.

No, I did. You have to write S E G G S I, which is also so silly. Like I was like, they obviously No, that's what we're doing. But apparently not, apparently. Like that's, that's just working crazy I guess. I guess you can't say it either. No, is what I've learned cuz they listen to your audio. , so instead of corn, you have to call it corn.

Corn. Like, it's just so dumb because it's so stupid. Yeah. But it, it, it's really, it's wild. So I mean, there's just no platforms that you're able to advertise on. That's a frustrating truth and it's really infuriating because I haven't been able to get clarity on why those things are in their exempt column. Mm. You know, like you can sell condoms, but you can't sell condoms ribbed for her pleasure.

Wait, [00:53:00] what? And again, their argument isn't, wait, what? Yeah, there are, I'm losing my mind. I'm losing my mind. Their, their argument isn't that it's a, it's not about gender, it's about pleasure. So that's where they come down. So what if, what. I'm in the Twilight Zone. Mm-hmm. It's wild. That is full crazy. It's full crazy.

It's just, and if we think about just the way, it's like such a subtle thing that not even, not very subtle. No, that's not subtle at all. At all. It's a way that just people don't know. People don't realize it's happening. I mean, I didn't know til today, I'm today years old. Yeah. People have no idea it's happening and it's definitely giving out this message that men are entitled to and should feel like something like they're entitled to their erections.

Right. Their erections are not, ECTs are important, but women you are not entitled to an enjoying sex. Like that is not, but your orgasms, you're not entitled to. You're not entitled to that. Like that doesn't matter. And then we wonder why we have a skewed [00:54:00] take on sex in this country. We wonder why there people are at odds in, in couples and even just the way, like we wonder why women aren't speaking up.

Yeah. You know, like we're not, you're making it harder for us to even talk about it because, but you're making it because it's easier for men to talk about. You're saying men, like you should go out and talk to somebody, like whether it's an online doctor that you're just gonna have to chat with and they're gonna send you drugs in the mail.

But either way it's just encouraging that conversation on as, as a valid conversation to have. Also, the more we see things, the more normalized, like the more I see ads or just content around something, the more desensitized I become to it. So, and we do use sex and advertisement and obviously we sexualize the female form so much more.

Sure. Which is why also then like underwear brands, they'll tell you that one, their female underwear imagery gets flagged way more often than their male underwear imagery. They'll also tell [00:55:00] you that their, that curvy women. Mm-hmm. Like bigger women. Yeah. Get. Flagged even more too. So it's, it's just all about who's, wait, wait.

So you're saying that an underwear brand with a, like a plus size model, that image will be taken down or that ad will be taken down? It's not that It will, it's more likely to be flagged as like inappropriate and then you'll have to appeal it. And then depending on such and such, right, it might get taken down.

But even like that appeal process is work. Yeah. And it's no joke. It's no joke. And like it, it's, that is bonkers. It's bonkers. It's, I mean it's bonkers, but it's also really reflective of society. Like, and the, if you think about being meta too, like having to, they have so many ads that are submitted and the ways that they're going about flagging them, it's kind of like the way AI is racist and it's [00:56:00] because it's just reflective of.

What we're feeding the machine in this learning. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, it's bonkers, but it, it's self perpetuating, perpetuating sense. Totally sense. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That, that's why it is the way it is. What to me is infuriating is like, is it's not that like the policy, like the written policy.

Yeah. Around like, why can't we change that, that, why can't we change that? That just seems wild. I think that, you know, there's nothing wrong with my advertising. I think I do kind of find it a little challenging that advertisements that elicit arousal are okay. But advertisements that talk about ways of enjoying your arousal, like, yeah, you can use, I don't know.

Well, it's just like the TikTok analogy of like, you can see teenage girls who are in bathing suit tops, like dancing in a really provocative way, and that's not going to get flagged. But then if you get out there and talk about, A vibrator. Mm-hmm. It'll get flagged. [00:57:00] I mean, I know because I made a joke about my Hitachi wand and, uh, boy did that get taken down so fast.

We, I mean, I've gotten so many things that are like, I always get flagged and I'm still always like, wait, what? And I think there's a part of me that's like, I just hoping that it's gonna change, or No, I can't tell you how often, like, I, and I can't believe this still happens to me. I'm like, what? Like, come on, dumb dumb.

Like, you've experienced this over and over again. Be smarter. Right. But, you know, we're in the age of authenticity. If there's one thing I'm good at is being authentic, I can't, I just, I keep forgetting to be inauthentic. Can you tell me about what happened with this MTA battle? Yeah, so I think that's kind of going back to like what we were talking about meta.

Yeah. So the New York City subway system said we could run advertisements and then they, I would not. What do you mean you couldn't, you couldn't, what did you wanna do? I wanted to run ads on the subway. Like Bill or like posters po Yeah. Like there's subway cars. I [00:58:00] wanted to run ads and they said no. Yeah.

Actually pretty much what happened was they said no to this other brand Unbound. Okay. Which is like also an awesome female founded sex to company and they, uh, got press in the New York Times and in the New York Times, like the way they like chilled out the press was being like, no, they can run ads.

They're allowed to like, but they denied their ads and what they were trying to say is like, we, you know, like we'd work with them. So I was like, okay, you guys said you would work with a sex toy company. Great. We'll be this, we will be the company. Yeah. Yes. Like, here are four different ad campaigns.

Which ones are okay with you? I was definitely like, you know, willing to work with them. Mm-hmm. And figure out something. Yeah. Cause I was like, if we can get something like that will be huge. That'd be great. That'd be great. And they said it was okay. And then they approved certain ads. We made those ads, we ordered the products.

We, you know, made our, you know, our media planning budget all around this campaign. Mm-hmm. And then they ghosted [00:59:00] us and just stopped responding. And then pretty much I ended up having to sue them because they were not, they, they said, oh, we don't work with any sexually oriented brands. But meanwhile there was like a 20 foot flacid cactus saying like, you know, we make hard, easy, you know, for HIMSS everywhere and Romans was advertising and there's breast augmentation.

There's just so much that was. Being allowed. That was ob, you know, sexual in nature. Wow. And then we sued them and then they were not able to explain the difference. Yeah. And then we settled and we were able to run the advertisements. Yes, yes. Oh, it was cool. That's crazy though. Like the, it really, it's so illuminating.

Like I hope that people listening understand like exactly what the battle is. And this is just like for representation, just to be able, yeah. I mean there was even at one point where I was like, what if the ads were just, just a [01:00:00] dame.com? Like yeah, just, just dam do com, which by the com way, if you don't know what dame.com is, that could be a T-shirt line.

Could, that could be T-shirt line. That could be anything. It could be anything. And obviously it could be my dog, just so totally. You know what I mean? It was just so. Challenging in the conversation to get them to agree or they, they wouldn't and they wouldn't talk to us. And it was, it just, it's again, you know, it also feels shitty as a person.

And then we were able to run those. Yeah. That sucks because you also feel like you, you are doing something good. I, I also feel like you're doing something good. Thank you. So I do think it sucks when you feel like you are the small guy working against the system, and whatever you're doing is like being shut down.

That that's a pretty terrible feeling. It's a shitty feeling. Yeah. And feelings matter. Okay. Says, says the somatic sex educator. Okay. Calm down. And yeah, I mean, like, there's like so much more nuance to that whole [01:01:00] experience and it doesn't feel. Like a full Big W, you know? Yeah. But, but there is a huge win in being that recently just happened in that you're now carried in Target.

Oh, yes, yes. We're in target. I feel like that's a huge win. Yes. We also launched in Australia on the shelves in Sephora last, that's, that's major. Two years ago we were like the first brand in Sephora, which is really cool. That's great. We love that. Just we, me all my personalities. We do too. It does feel like a big win.

It does feel like just continuing to see more representation in mainstream mm-hmm. Of our products. Of products in general, of sexuality in general has. It's awesome. You know, like I do feel like the change is happening. Yeah. To be po you know, like on the positive side. Yeah. So, you know, I'm, I'm stoked to be riding this wave and to also hopefully be fanning it and helping it move forward.

I love that. Yeah. Well, and I don't [01:02:00] know if. The team told you, but we're gonna do a giveaway. Yeah. Let's, yeah. Uh, to some listeners. So I feel like for people that are listening and wanna try some Dame products please click the link in the show notes and we will choose some random winners. Amazing.

But otherwise you can go to dame products.com. Mm-hmm. dame.com. Dot com. You don't even need, I mean, if you type in products, it will get you there too. Oh, I've always done that. Yeah, you can do that. Oh, okay. But if you wanna be lazy, you can. Just write dame.com major. Okay. But it's Dame products on Instagram?

Yes. Okay. Just dame products on Instagram and you have to type com. That full name and Instagram cuz obviously we're Shadow Band. Shadow Band. I learned that the hard way.

I was like, the fuck, why can't I find them? To close out, I ask everybody this, but what is the best relationship advice you've ever been given?

Mm,

okay. I feel like I have so many good pieces. So I don't know if this is the best, but this is definitely really good. [01:03:00] Great. Do you know about the five to one ratio? No. Five to one ratio is from the Gottman Institute, which I is just like a, an amazing institution dedicated to like what makes happy, healthy relationships, love.

And it's the idea that we need to be having five positive interactions for one critical Oh, and I think one, so that's so true in our relationships, we wanna make sure that we're saying positive things too. It doesn't, it doesn't always have to be the compliment sandwich, but like,

we remember negative things so much more intensely than we remember positive things. Of course. Yeah. So like, just, , go home. Express gratitude for your partner. It's amazing how. Making that, that a little bit more effort to just say positive things will make it so much easier for that person, for when you to say, Hey, like you didn't do the dishes for them.

Not, you know, cuz that that can be taken in so many ways. Mm-hmm. For them to hear it. Gotta hit them positive way, gotta way hit five compliments first. Gotta hit them in five compliments first. Or just making sure that like, like hair, skin, I love those glasses and those jeans fit you really well. [01:04:00] And I love your dimples in your hair.

And you didn't do the fucking dishes. And you didn't do the dishes. Yeah. Yeah. I think that those things matter and when, yeah. So that's a good one. I love that. Thank you Al thank you so much for joining us. This has been amazing. I can't believe you hauled your very pregnant self out to do this interview.

Oh yeah. I'm, I'm thrilled and I'm, I'm so excited that people get to try these products. Yes. I'm excited to. Thank you. Check 'em out. Okay. Bye. Bye. We're done. I feel like we do. I feel like I didn't answer any question.