Ghosted in Person with Nick Norcia

[15:47:00]

Poor Chino. I know, he's such a babe. Bless his heart. So, what do you think happened? I mean... Because it's the DL guy, I think the tale as old as time, they, they're so like, on their toes about coming. I'm surprised he sent the photo. Okay. Because DL guy never, like, you have to milk a photo out of them. Oh. A face photo.

Right, right. Not a, not a DP. Yeah. Not a DP. That's what I thought the first photo was. Yeah, of course. An unsolicited face photo. I was like, oh wait, oh, that makes sense because it's a DL guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um. I think the guy wasn't either, it was either catfish or he, he just had cold feet and was like, I can't do this.

I can't do this. And then pulled out. Pulled out in a different kind of way. Not the way that he was hoping for. Not the way that Chino was hoping for. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Major. Wow. Yeah. I know. Nothing like that has ever happened to me before. No, like a, like a real life ghosting. A real life ghosting? I mean, I'm sure Chino realized it wasn't him.

It was the guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like. It's it's real humiliation. For sure. [15:48:00] It's one thing to be like, Oh, he's not. He didn't reply. He left me on read. Right. But when you see someone physically, they're like, and then they're like, we good. But as long as he said, like, the Actual photo of himself like there was no reason why when Chino left the house.

He would have like left I know if you sent the photo and you are who you are in the photo I'm like, there's no reason to I hear about it happening in LA where guys get robbed like grinder hookups gone wrong Where guys I've heard a lot of dudes getting robbed So, I don't know. Maybe it was like that situation and when the lights went on with the cameras Yeah.

Whoever was in the car was like, Ooh, not this, not this bitch. I thought about that too, because with the security cameras, okay, that could have been another factor. It could have been another factor. If it looks like cameras or he has cameras and he's so DL, he has a wife and kids. He thinks this guy's going to see footage and use it as bait.

Oh wow. Okay. Yeah. Wow. I guess we'll never know. Which, by the way, drives me nuts. Yeah, I know. We want to get to the bottom of this. I'm so nosy. I'm like, I need to [15:49:00] know. Who is this man? I know. Who is this man? Let's find him. Have you ever been ghosted? Uh, yeah. Many times. You have? Not, not, not in that sense.

No, not IRL. Yeah, not IRL. Um, but yeah, I've been ghosted plenty of times. Really? Yeah. I find that shocking. Thank you. Yeah, the world will shock you. Men will, men, men are shocking. Men are shocking. That's the nicest way to say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So predictable. It's so crazy because you are a man and you're into men and also you're aware.

Yeah, that we suck. Yeah. You said it, not me. I say it all the time. I'm like, if God only made women, this world would be a much better place. And that's coming from a man. Hell yeah. Pew, pew, pew, pew. So, have you ever been catfished? I've never been catfished when the person's not who they say they are.

I've been catfished when I show up to a hookup and their photo is about 20 years prior to where they are. I've had that too. And I'm like, Oh, you've [15:50:00] put on some pounds and you've gained some wrinkles. And I was like, and lost some hair. Yeah. Your, your, your forehead. Where it hurts. Your forehead has grown.

Yeah. See? I'm like, sir, you are missing a few things and I see you have added a few things. The math is not mathing here. Yeah, you forgot to carry the one. Exactly. So yeah, I've been ghosted, or sorry, I've been catfished in that sense. What did you do? I'm so bad at being a dick and being like, no, and turning around and leaving.

Yeah. So I just like came in and sat on the couch and like we had a chat and I was friendly, but then when he tried to advance I was like, oh no, I'm not like feeling it, I'm gonna head out. Because, when it comes to Grindr, it's like, there's like a banter when it's like, I'm horny, I'm horny, here's my address, here's my address.

That kind of thing is like, that's, you're not going to have banter. But if it's like, how's your day going, what do you do, like, kind of that thing, that's kind of what we had. And he was cute, or he was cute, Yeah, he was cute in 2003. 2003 was a great year for him. Um, and, so anyway, so I was like, you know, like, we became kind of friendly on the app, so I'll continue to be [15:51:00] nice.

Okay. In the living room. Yeah. Um, but like, I'm not like sexually into him at this point in time. Never will be. Yeah. Due to. I'm the same way. You would not think that with me. You would. I think that most people listening would go, wait, you get weird and I go, I get really nice too. Oh, that's a for, I, I would think you are a stone cold bitch and would just like not no offense.

I love that. Are you kidding me? Thank you. I wish I had more of that in me. And sometimes, sometimes I am a lot of like, I'm really good at asserting my boundaries, AKA being a bitch. But if you catch me off guard, like this catfish did, I will roll with it because I won't know what to do. And this man showed up.

He looked like he ate his former self, but like eight years ago, lost a bunch of hair. And the worst part was he was in like sweatpants. But like mismatched sweatpants and like a waffle knit shirt that didn't cover his belly. It was awful. It [15:52:00] was really bad. I, I buckled in for a three hour long date. This isn't charity season.

You can't be doing that. I know, but I didn't, I, I didn't know what to do and I didn't see any exits. I was like, oh god. It was bad. It was bad, yeah. So, I also can get wrapped up in the... Well, when you're bamboozled, it's like, what do you... Like, you're like, what do I do I know. I know. It was awful. So, anyway.

You use Grindr, yeah? I do. I do use Grindr. Do you like Grindr? I do and I don't. I have a love hate relationship with it. I delete it, like, half the year it's deleted, half the year I have it on. And then do you use any other apps or no? I use Hinge. Hinge, okay.

For dates. For dates, which you are a professional at. Yes, yes. I'm a serial dater. And I... Admitted. Admitted. Well, because it's so hard when you have like, I had, I had Raya too. I finally ended Raya because I was like, why am I paying 20 to match with men that live in Madrid? Like, this isn't making sense.

So I stopped that because I couldn't find guys in LA. And so then Hinge has been like where I date. But [15:53:00] between Instagram and Hinge, it's like you have the DMs and you're like going on dates with guys. So you might be like in a month. in one week go on three different dates. Whoa! Or two dates. That's like a full time job.

I know. But I haven't done it in a while. But like when I'm in my dating mood, right now I'm not, as long as it's like, I would say by the third date is when I like need to stop dating. If we're gonna go past three dates. But you never do. I usually don't. Okay. I don't know why. This is going to be a therapy session.

We can talk about that. Let's dive in. So why is that? Um, I wonder if there isn't some, oh man, I was going to say this theory and I want to preface it by just saying, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about. So also take it with a grain of salt. Um, I wonder if it has something to do with having to conceal who you were for so long.

The fact that you weren't out, that it does breed a certain, like, avoidant tendency. Yeah. You know, because avoidants want, it's not that they don't, I mean, you [15:54:00] want a boyfriend. We've talked about this. You want to be in love. I think, a classic avoidant wants it, but the second it gets kind of close, pushes back or puts up a wall out of a, out of self protection.

And I wonder if there's a connection there, just between. You know, the experiences you had for up until college for anybody listening, you came out in college. I don't know. I mean, that definitely makes sense because yeah, it's a, I, I've always wanted a boyfriend, but then it's usually me. I always just kind of freak out once a guy's like showing interest and I'm like, Oh, whoa, whoa, wait, hold on.

And then I either stop replying or like not necessarily, maybe, okay, fine, I ghost them or I just like kindly say, you know, like, Oh, I'm not looking for this at this time. But that's like the nice way of saying. You know, I want to stop seeing you. Me. I recently reconnected with an ex and I need to see where it goes.

If you ever get one of those texts from me, I just wasn't into it. That's a cute way of putting it. Yeah. It got used on me. Oh. And then I co opted it. Okay. I was like, Oh, that was good. That was a [15:55:00]good, that's a good line. Because you can't, it's like you can't fight the past. There's nothing. Oh, my ex, you can't come here with my ex.

I've been with my ex. You know what I mean? It kind of takes a little bit of the edge off, I think. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe, maybe, maybe not. So dating in LA. Oh, it's a blast. A blast. Here. You want this? Oh, thank you. How could you tell I had no water? I'm psychic. Psychic. She's a witch. a witch. This is a tin can, and I picked it up and she could tell that there was no water in Yeah, I know.

I was like, he is thirsty. Get that man some water. Well, thank you. So, TLDR, you're from the South. I'm from the South. Southern boy. Came out in college. Mm hmm. Haven't had a boyfriend. No. Date a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, for, yes. And for anybody that's not gonna go to our Instagrams, womp womp, he's really hot.

Really hot. Oh, thank you. Like, the hottest. Immediately set you up with one of my friends. You did, and I appreciated that. He was really sweet. Yeah. We hit it off. I, you guys gotta go [15:56:00] on a second date. I'm, I'm angling for that. I feel like you both have crazy schedules. We did. We were going, he, yeah, he was really busy and then he actually reached out and was like, Hey, I'm almost done.

We should come when I'm back in LA, we should hang out again. And I was like, yes, we should. And you were like, I recently reconnected with my ex. No, I said I, I replied. I was like, yes, we should. And then honestly, when I was driving here, I was like, she's probably gonna bring that up. And I was like, what happened?

I was like, I replied and I checked. I was like, no, I replied. He just never followed through, but I didn't follow through too. Cause it's, it's a two way street. You know, I don't care. I don't care. I'm not gonna, when I set people up it leaves my hands and then it's up to you and the universe. You know?

You let go and you let God. Mm hmm. I don't know if I'm gonna trust it with God, but yeah. Well that's, look, point in case. That's been my motto, and look at me. I love it. I need to find a new mantra. Oh my God. So dating in LA is hard. Why do you think it's hard? Because of the options and the attractiveness out here, it's like there's always every season there's new men and new men coming in and like, so many [15:57:00] single people, so many relationships that are open.

It's just like, it's just such a cesspool of like Attractive men. Yeah horny like sex. It's just everything and yeah, you get like lost in it And it's like a buffet of all of your favorite food. It's like it's never gonna run out Yes, and so it's kind of like one of those things where it's fun and then you kind of get lost in it But then you like remember oh, I want if you want that like white picket fence golden retriever like house on the cul de sac life Is that what you want?

I mean, I think eventually, but like I do, I do, I would love that and house in the Hamptons maybe. Okay. Um, but like, that's really hard to find here. It's not impossible. I know people that have, but like. We're on the West Coast. We are on the West Coast. So maybe a Malibu? Uh, Palm Springs doesn't like scream to me.

I don't know. Uh, yeah, because I don't know, there's a desert, a hundred and four degrees. First off, skincare kids. Yeah. Right. Uh, but so I think it's, it's honestly just. People don't want to commit and I'm included in that, like, when I do start liking a guy I'm like, wait, this [15:58:00] means I can't like, or maybe I can if we're open, but like, I would prefer not to be, but like, I'm like, oh, this means like when I go to bars I can't just like see a hot guy and go make out with him or like flirt with him if like I'm like, have a boyfriend, and it's like you have to give that up, which I think you just have to find the person that you want to give that up with.

I mean, you felt that a couple of times. Oh, I have. Like, I've twice here, I've been here a year and a half, and twice I've fallen for two guys that I was, like, ready to date. Unfortunately, they, the feelings weren't mutual. They need to get their heads checked. You know. Yeah. Not everyone has 20 20 vision.

Not me. But I correct it. I come corrected. do you have any examples of, like, the worst, worst dates you've ever been on in your life? I have a really, really bad dating experience, it's a really long story, but, I've, I technically have been kind of ghosted in IRL now that I think about it.

Okay. Do you want me to tell it? Yeah. Okay. So basically I was long term, long distance dating this guy. Yes. I was in [15:59:00] Mississippi.

He was in LA. Yes. This was in 2020. Right. Like January 2020. and we were like chatting and we'd like FaceTime and we'd like text every day. And then come around like February, March, I was like, okay, it's been two months in the guy. I want to come like see you. Yeah. Yeah. Because I didn't want him to come to Mississippi, what was I going to show him?

And um, so I was going to go see him for a weekend, and then I was working for this director who's based in Mississippi, and he was going to be in LA that weekend as well. Oh, so perfect. So perfect. We'll both go. Instead of just like, yeah. And so, and my boss stays. at this gorgeous house, and when I've traveled with him, I stay there too.

so I was like, well, this is perfect. Instead of, and he already agreed to me to come stay with him during the weekend. But I didn't want to be like, I'm going to come for a week, but I'm going to stay with to go crash with my hot boyf. Yes. I was like, I'm going to go on the weekend, crash with this cutie.

I'm going to work in L. A. at my boss's, like, in this nice house in West Hollywood so that I'm not like on top of this guy that, you know, a week's too long to stay. So I come in on a Tuesday. We [16:00:00]meet up because we'd never met in IRL. We made up, go out for Taco Tuesday and I did stay the night with him that night.

But I like met his friends. It wasn't like a date. It was just like I met his friends. We grabbed tacos like at a bar and that was it. We did hook up. Yeah. And then the rest of the week, I we just texted, but I was working. Yeah. And then Friday rolls around. And, this was the last weekend bars were open.

Oh, wow. So this was when people started being like, okay. Dropping my class. So all my friends that I had met, because I was living in Mississippi, but I had some friends in L. A. because I originally moved out to L. A. before getting the Mississippi job. they were all like, oh, we're not going out this weekend.

So I wasn't going to see, like, any of my friends, but this guy was going to go out. So I guess I'll just go out with this guy that I came to see. Yeah. So he went out to go watch the RuPaul at Rocco's, and I was working late with my boss around like 6 p. m. And this is when. I will take some of the blame. We were supposed to meet up at 7, and then my bosses were like, We're gonna go to Alice and Janney's house for drinks.

Do you want to come? And I was like, yes, I You were like, I'm sorry, that was rhetorical, right? I was like, yeah. You were like, Queen Janney? They were like, don't you have plans? I was like, no, I don't. You were like, I don't [16:01:00] know her. I do not know her. I'm gonna go see mom. Yeah. Let's go see mom. Yeah. So we went there.

Mom! And so then basically I was there for like three hours and then couldn't, it was like 11 p. m. and I was like, I'm coming out now, like I'm gonna meet you out. So at that point he's been drinking and like, I didn't like ditch him, he was with his friends. Yeah. But I come out, we're at this bar, we're hanging out and he's like talking to this other guy that's clearly into him and which is fine, I like walked up.

Do you think it was a game? I don't know. I don't know. But this guy was, they were just chatting and I like walked up and it was one of those conversations where you weren't really being included, but it was mainly the other guy was not including you. Yeah. And so I was like, whatever, I'm going to go get a drink.

So I went and grabbed a drink, came back and it took like 10 minutes and then they were still like, I handed them the drink and they were still like kind of having like a A B conversation. I saw my way out of it. And so I'm like going to go dance. So I was like kind of dancing. And then his friend that I met on Tuesday comes up and starts dancing with me and tries Like, literally, he kisses me, and then I cut back, I was like, oh, like, oh, what's going on?

You're like, I'm literally staying with your friend. I'm staying with your friend, we met, and This is a red flag that you didn't know that. And he kept on trying to like, kiss me, and I was like, so then at this point, I'm [16:02:00] like, this guy clearly must not have told his best friend that I came from Mississippi to spend time with him.

Which was like, whatever, that kind of pissed me off, but then, at this point, it's been like 30 minutes, and this guy Is not like giving me any attention and I'm like I have no other friends out And like whatever so then I snapped at the friend that kept on trying to make out with me He's like what's he's like because I was kind of pissed off and he's like, what's your problem?

I was like, no, i'm just like pissed at Scott. I was like, Scott hasn't given me any attention, and he's like talking to some guy, and like, you know, I don't care about that, but like, it's just like, it's annoying. So then, of course, my dumbass told him, his best friend that, who told Scott. Scott that, yeah.

And Scott now thinks that I'm jealous, like I'm this, Red flag. This guy's freaking out that I'm like, we, we aren't even boyfriends. We've known, we've been talking for two months and he's mad that I'm talking to a guy. Which was not the scenario. Right, right. So now it was in miscommunication because of Scott's best friend.

Fucked it up. Who was trying to make out with me. Who triangulated the whole situation. Exactly. So basically it was this whole thing. And then who? Sidebar. Sidebar. This was just a quick little te out, 'cause I gotta say this, I had this conversation with a girlfriend of mine. I said, [16:03:00] when you're younger, Do not ever take your friend's advice when it comes to dating because they all have ulterior motives, but when you get older Always take your friend's advice So like I think by the time people hit their 30s, they've seen it.

They've been through enough bullshit We've weeded through enough friends that have done us dirty that you're left with the people that I think you can trust and if your girlfriends or your guy friends are like They're shady or we don't we think you can do better or whatever it is Trust them. But I think when you're younger, you have those friends of Scott who are out there trying to make moves on the dude that you're seeing.

And then you can't really trust that. Yeah. Anyway, please continue. That's true. So basically, the friend clearly told Scott, Scott like approaches me and he's kind of like, dude, what's up? Like, you're freaking out. I'm like, no, I'm not. I'm like, I'm not freaking out because of that. I'm like more mad that like it's been now an hour and like we haven't even really chatted and I'm like kind of entertaining myself.

anyway. And he's like, how was Allison Janney? And you were like, let's not bring that up. I was like, she's lovely. You're honestly like. She's the best. You would love her. Here's some [16:04:00] photos. Uh, no, but, uh, so basically, we kind of had this like, chatter bit, and I could tell that he was annoyed, but I was like, it's just, don't worry about it.

I was kind of like, don't worry about it. It's misunderstanding, whatever. So then we're like, leaving the bar to go to another bar, and this girlfriend from college, I run into her in the street, which is just like, so serendipitous, because like, I'm visiting LA. No, and he leaves you? So I was just like, oh my god, so we're chatting, right?

And as I'm chatting with her, I see him keep walking, I see him turn his head, but I didn't look to see, and this is at the intersection of, Hollywood Boulevard and, San Vicente, and he turns up San Vicente, which there is no bars up that road. No. So I'm like, why is he, he's going home.

And he just keeps on going, and I'm like, does he not realize that he's left me behind? So as I'm having this conversation with this girl, processing this, like, in real life, in real time, I start crying, because I'm a Cancer Moon. And I'm like, she's like, I'm a Cancer Moon! But I was trying to, like, hold it all together, and she could tell, like, you know when someone's like, are you okay?

Right before you're about to cry. You just, like, lose it. So she was like, Are you okay? And I was like, No, I don't know where I'm gonna go tonight. And she's like, What? I was like, This guy just left me. And I'm like, Cause I was [16:05:00] gonna go stay the night with him. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm not gonna be that guy texting him, being like, Where'd you go?

Like, I'm supposed to be staying with you. Cause once you like reject, No, no, no, no. Once I get rejection, I'm not gonna like, You're out. I'm like, You smell a little whiff of rejection. Yeah. You're, I would rather not, I would rather die. And so basically I'm like, I have no, I wish I had more of that , I wish I had more of that, that would've saved me, uh, decades worth of trauma.

Yeah. I think it's an ego thing, but he basically like, so I saw that and I was like, in this moment, this girl's like hugging me. I'm crying. And then this guy, I feel the tap of my shoulder, and it's this Instagram, model guy that I have the biggest crush on that we follow each other, but I've never met him, and I'm meeting him now, and like, he's like, do I know you?

And I'm literally sobbing. And he's like, and then he's like, what are you doing in L. A.? And I snapped out of it. You're like, going home with you, baby. Right? I was like, please, if there's a God. No, but then, mind you, the girl that I met from college, she's with like five other girls who I've not introduced myself to, and he's like, what are you doing in L.

A.? Like, who are you here with? And I turned and I was just like, I'm with my girls, like, we're [16:06:00] out. And these girls are like, who the fuck are you ? And I'm like, uh, we're just like hanging out. Like, and he's like, oh, come to this bar. And we go to this bar and he's, and you're like, let's go girls. Yeah. Let's, Shania t Twain kicks in, and then we go to this bar and there's a $10 cover.

And for, for females, because it's a sexist world. And, um, yeah, I got, okay. Normally it's the, yeah, I know. It's the, I'm from Atlanta. I'm used to the reverse. Yeah. But West Hollywood baby, we got mm-hmm. , the cards were in our favor. Mm-hmm. , but. So we go to this bar and I, I paid the 50 for all five girls to get in.

Wow, you took one for the team, and by the team I mean you. Yes, and then the guy, the cute Instagram model goes home with another boy and at this point I like Leave to walk outside and I'm like, I guess I can go to a friend's that like knows that I'm in town But I don't have like anything Well, my suitcase was thankfully at the other place that I was staying the whole week because I had yet anyway long story short I I walk out of Rocco's and it starts drizzling rain in LA at like 130 and I'm like, so that was personal That was personal and I did walk from Rocko's [16:07:00] to Selma Ave like on Laurel Canyon, that's about a mile and a half, I think I walked it in the entire walk I did listen to Sam Smith radio and I was crying the entire way and then the the the ringer is the next day I did get on a flight to go back to Mississippi and I contracted COVID 19 in March of 2020.

I was patient like zero at like in Natchez, Mississippi. That was the weekend that LA shut down. Like the next day, like the governor was like, yeah, bars. Did you ever talk to Scott again? Yes. Because when I moved back out here, he was, he was going back to Austin, Texas because he's a Texan.

And of course, he was moving out, and I guess who helped him move out of his apartment. Why? Okay, remember how I said when I hit rejection I never go back? Yeah, so I lied. Um, he was like, I'm sorry, let's chat, and so then we chatted, and then we talked it out, and there was a miscommunication. Because he, he is a genuine good guy.

he, he wasn't thinking when he left me in the streets, but like it wasn't going to work out anyway. Okay. Well yeah, because you have a three day rule. Yes. So, but I did get ghosted and contract COVID 19 in the same weekend. That's pretty bad. That's a pretty bad day. That's a pretty bad day. I don't love that.

Sorry. That was the fastest I've told that [16:08:00] story. I love that for us. okay. I'm going to like jump around a little bit because I heard you on a podcast and you said something where. The first couple of times you had sex with people, you thought you were in love with them. Mm hmm. And also, you were raised, evangelical?

Yeah. Correct? I say evangelical, but I'm also from the South, so don't know how to say it. I think it's evangelical. Evangelical. Like, conservative evangelical. Correct. Like, my sister went to Liberty University, if you know what that is.

No, I don't know what that is. That's Hulu documentary, The Pool Boy. That, that, that college. Oh, I do know that. That scandal. That is, like, the kind of, , upbringing I had. Wow. Not the pool boy part, but, that world. That's cretin. Okay. Okay. Hypocrisy at its finest. Yes. Hypocrisy. A lot of people that look like me but don't sound like me.

Yes. Yes. You would, you would, Aesthetically do great. I know. I really do. I really fit in with those worlds. They're like, oh, a hot white girl. She's going to do great. Blonde hair, blue eyes. Yeah. And then all of a sudden my personality comes out and they're like, burn her, burn her.

They're like, burn her to the stake. Yeah. She does not think women should submit to men. Yeah. I digress. So. How [16:09:00] did that change? Because I've also heard you talk about how, like, you are one with hookup culture, even though you kind of hate it, it's like a love hate thing.

how did that transition for you? And I guess what I'm really getting at is, how did you combat the shame you had around sex? Yeah. Because that's, I think, at the heart of it. I read a book that really helped me, and it was The Velvet Rage, and it's this psychiatrist that basically has spent 40 years seeing gay men, and kind of wrote a book about, like, attacking the issues of like, why are gay men known to be so overtly sexual?

Why are they have not tend to be monogamous? Why are they, and a lot of it goes back to like upbringing and shame and shame plays such a role in everything. Yeah. And so reading that kind of helped me like kind of unpack shame and unpack like why, like why we are who we are. And Kind of giving you empathy for your community, even though like sometimes you're like, Oh, I hate the gay community because of X, Y, Z.

But it's like, once you kind of have the empathy, it's like, Well, if you're, if this person hurt you, like, someone hurt them. And not, not saying that it's okay. No, of course, but it's [16:10:00] understanding. Empathy is like the most powerful tool to get through life, I think. I fully agree. Because the world is unfair and shitty.

Yeah. So, that book really helped, and then, um, The Velvet Rage. Do you think it would help women? I say this because I do think there's a lot of parallels between gay men and women, and I think a lot of women grow up with the same kind of idea of it has to be a man and a woman, you wait till marriage, um, if you're promiscuous, you know, slutty is bad.

These kind of, cliches that have been drilled into us, whether it's through religion or media or, middle school, whatever that is. Right. And I didn't have that. Like I was raised in such a. Sex positive, open, I went to art school, you know, I grew up with trans kids, like this isn't, my experience is so atypical.

So it makes sense that I have a podcast where I talk about pegging dudes that my parents listen to. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, We love a progressive queen. We do. Hey mom, what up girl? Um, to answer your question, I think, I mean, I think anyone could benefit from it. Anyone that [16:11:00]has experienced shame, I think that's the big thing.

The approach the book takes is like growing up gay in a heteronormative world. So anyone that's grown up in a world where they feel like it was a world where they were a circle and they were trying to be put into a square. If that makes sense, like, then it could help, um, I think, um, another book that would help women, because I believe the Ethical Slut is not just gay, it's more about, yeah, yeah, yeah, Because I started reading that one as well, because I was kind of having that, like, with relationships, I was like, everyone here is, is open, open, I mean, I love it coming in as a third on the weekends, you know, because I, it, I love me a threesome.

same. But I'm like, but I, you know, anyway. So I kind of read that and that kind of helped me understand, like, monogamy and, like, you know, that structure. I think it's being bastardized a little bit now. Like, I think that always kind of happens with things that... Get kind of trendy or popular, you know, I don't think at its core Well polyamory is I guess different because it's multiple loves but ethical non monogamy I think we're losing a little bit of the ethical part, but no.

Yeah, I Could agree with that, but I think it's just [16:12:00] yeah and a lot of unlearning of like why did why do I think the way? I thought when I was like, why do I feel like my values less? with the more men I sleep with. And that's like, I shouldn't feel that, but I do. And it was like a lot of women feel that way.

And so it's like kind of unpacking that like belief, which is like your values based on like your, for your husband or for your, for whatever and like kind of unpacking that and being like, no, we are sexual creatures. We are beautiful creatures. You shouldn't be ashamed of nudity.

You shouldn't be like, you should be proud of like your body or you should be proud of like who you are. And if you want to like sleep with however many men, like that's, that's your business and whatever, you know, and kind of just like owning who you are and like setting that narrative and not giving an actual fuck what other people think.

I think that it's, I mean, to me, the fact that you've come from where you came from and that you feel really competent and that is so huge. I think you could teach a ton of people. Thank you. I really do. I, I, I think like you're a real life example that you can grow up a certain way and then lead a full life.

I don't know if I have full, I mean, with dicks.[16:13:00] Uh, no, that you could go out and, and like, sleep with whoever you want to and not feel bad about it. Yeah. Because you're honoring yourself. Like, I never advocate for, if you don't want to sleep with somebody, absolutely don't do it. Like, don't, don't dishonor yourself, but, you know, I think a lot of people want to, um, hook up with somebody.

with someone and then stop themselves because of that guilt or that shame. And I will absolutely link to those books because if they helped you, they might be able to help other people. Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah, I think that's great. How do you turn a hookup into a friend? Since you're an expert. I am an expert at that.

I mean, it's not like I don't really have a talk. It's not like we have a friend zone talk. That's actually a really hard question because I don't even I'm trying to think in the past. I think it's more just like the person reads that like, you're not gonna Be something and but you really enjoy being friends or you really enjoy their company or you really enjoy their vibe But you hooked up and then it's like well if we're not gonna [16:14:00] date Yeah, we can either keep on hooking up or like but potentially like that turns into something Are these people where you enjoy the hookup or you didn't enjoy the hookup or both?

I would say both like sometimes I did or sometimes I didn't I just like at that time didn't want to date them or whatever Reason like I have some friends that I've hooked up with that are like, beyond attractive. Oh, I believe it. And I'd like have friends on them just because I just didn't like, for whatever reason, I'm most attracted to like a personality.

And so I can have sex with a guy who's really hot. And I'm not saying that people that I friends on or don't have a personality. Uh, but I'm just saying, for whatever reason, yeah, it doesn't click. And so then it's like, well, let's just be friends. And for the most part.

I don't really hook up like once I normally and it's nice because if there's with gay men Like there might be sexual tension if you haven't hooked up If you're both attracted to each other, but you're friends, if you hook up at the beginning, the sexual tension's gone, been there, done that, and then you're just friends.

So I've had experiences where I haven't hooked up with a really hot friend of mine, [16:15:00] and like six months in, we're drunk, and we hook up, and then that's much harder because it's like, oh, we're like besties. We like know each other, and now we've crossed the line. I just sucked your dick. Yeah. And you didn't suck my back.

Well, let's talk about that. Like, what's going on? Wait, what? Does that happen? Does that happen? Does that happen? Oh yeah, that happens sometimes. Wha? Some guys hate giving oral. I happen not to be that kind of guy, so. Whoa, that's so funny. Yeah, some guys hate to like that too. I had a moment where I ran into a friend of mine at a restaurant two days ago and I realized, Oh yeah, I'm actually friends with a lot of people because I dated them.

I was thinking somebody like that. And then a friend was like, wow, you just like know so many people. And I had this epiphany and I thought, yeah, it's because I've been single for a lot of various years. And I. Really, like, we'll date somebody for a month or a couple weeks or even three months and then they become my friend.

 Like, I rarely have [16:16:00] people that I've dated that I don't associate with. And I don't mean just, like, one day. Like, sometimes you just don't hit it off with people. But if we hit it off, why am I gonna not be friends with you? And I feel like the way that I kind of transition it is I am really good at taking rejection.

I think if you can take rejection really well... It makes that transition a lot easier, because so many people don't do that. And then, um. That makes sense. Yeah. That's, that's a good testimony to you of the sense that you're able to like, the fact that you're still friends with people you've dated in the past, that shows that like, you're mature enough to be like, okay, let's just transition this into a friendship.

I guess. I think it's, there's probably something that also is negative about it. Like maybe I have control issues or something. I don't know. But it is really like. I do, people ask me about that, like, how are you friends with your exes? And since you're so good at turning hookups into friends, I figured I would ask you.

Yeah. No, I, I, I agree with, I mean, I kinda, when I think about that, when I have had pool parties a lot of times, I'm like, who's everyone? I'm like, I dated him, I dated him, I dated him, we hooked up, like, it's like, and then everyone's [16:17:00] like, is this not awkward? Oh, I know. When I followed you on Instagram, I was like, every hot man I know that's gay in LA follows you.

So. History. History. What is a killer move? A move that always works? Um, lower, touching the lower back. Oh yeah, that would work on me. If a guy like, you're talking to a guy at a bar and he like, Like cresses your lower back or like, just like, kind of like softly does it, I'm like, like melts.

Yeah. Yeah. Do you have a, a killer move for sliding into dms? Um, I don't have an actual like line. I normally just am like very sarcastic, almost in an embarrassing way. So that like, they either are like, this guy's really funny, or like, don't reply . Ooh, fail fast. That makes sense. Yeah. Love that. I love that.

killer date, like what's your ideal date? My ideal date is, We don't have Publix's here. We have Ralph's. I know, but Pub Subs are like the best thing in the world and I have yet to find a sub that's like a Pub Sub, but like a sub, like go to a Ralph's, or go to my favorite sub place [16:18:00] and get a sandwich and like all the little things and do a picnic on the beach.

Not like an actual picnic, but just like a beach date where you like went to a store and you grabbed food. Like I think that's just the best. Love that. Okay, date killer. What kills a date? Um, bad breath. That'll do it. Yeah, that'll do it. Like garlic. And like, I love garlic. I eat garlic. That's the other thing, like, bad breath, but then like, I kinda answer that with like, I will not make out with someone who has garlic breath.

I can't. But I love Italian food, so I often will have it. But then I just know if I had a shit ton of it, I just won't kiss anyone. Or I'll like, go home and... I have totally powered through the bad breath thing. You have. Yeah, I know. I, sometimes if I just like put my mind on something I can really focus through anything.

Because I'll just, I know it's a one off or it's an anomaly or the thought of, it's so weird because I am so kind of um, I'm assertive, and okay with having awkward conversations, but there are a few things that, like, really make me want to just crawl into a hole, and, and talking about, like, bad breath, or something, like, smell, or something that somebody can't immediately change [16:19:00] makes me just want to melt.

What is one thing in your self love practice? Oh, um, I like that. So, one thing that I do for self love, and this has helped me so much, is whenever I'm making a decision, or whenever I'm just faced at some type of like, Issue that I have. I always think back on like eight year old Nick and how like I would go into my mom's closet and wear her high heels and like just wanted and like I just always wanted to like be this like very expressive boy and how I never really like it was all that was in the shadows and And remembering how like suppressed I like my emotions.

I have a huge, if you follow me on Instagram, you know, I have a huge personality. I didn't really have that growing up. I had it to little bits and pieces came out, but I wasn't able to be my full self. And so when I think. When I have these issues with self love, it's like, I'm going to do this for 8 year old Nick or 12 year old Nick, or I'm not going to do this for this Nick, like, this Nick doesn't deserve, like, 12 year old Nick doesn't deserve this man, or like, you know, like, that sounds weird, but like, [16:20:00]you know what I mean, just like making decisions for that, like, youthful you, because it's easy to have a lot of self hate, But it's really hard to have self hate for 8 year old you because you like love and you have so much empathy and you have like so much like love for your younger self, but that's still you.

There's no difference between 8 year old you and you now, it's just you have a lot more wisdom and life experiences, but that same girl is living in you right now. And so when you think of it that way, it's really easy to love yourself or to make good decisions. I love that. Thank you. I ask everyone this.

What is the best love advice you've ever received?

I don't know if I've received really good love advice, now that I think about it, because nothing's coming to my head. mean, I guess, I remember my, Two bosses are now like my two dads. sorry, when I say my bosses, they're like, they're like family to me.

I remember they told me just once to just never settle for someone who, wants me to be less than who I am. Um, because I'm a lot. And that was really good, just because I struggle with that. With, [16:21:00] like, Dulling down your shine or your volume. No, like, don't let someone, like, expect less from you to, like, fit in their, their version of what they want.

Oh, yeah. Go find less, babe. Go find less. Yeah, if I'm too much for you, go find less. Nick Norcia, if people want more of you, how do they find you?

Oh, well, you can follow me on Instagram or TikTok. You're a good follow. Thank you, thank you. Um, at Nick underscore Norcia, that is spelled N O R C I A. It looks like Norcia, but it's Norcia. Yeah, Norcia. And, um, if... If somebody is listening and wants to slide into your DM, what should they say? Oh, um, yeah, that's a great question because I'm really bad at answering DMs.

Okay, well then that's it. Find you on Hinge. Find you on Hinge. Hopefully we can match on Hinge. Thank you so much for doing this. This was so great. Oh my god, I had so much fun chatting with you. You are the best. Thank you, Roy. I had so much fun. I loved it. Loved it, loved it, loved it.